Schau, unsre Tage sind so eng

Von den frühen Prager Gedichten über Cornet, Neue Gedichte, Sonette und Elegien bis zum lyrischen Grabspruch

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Gast

Beitrag von Gast » 2. Jul 2003, 03:26

Hi Marie,

I'll be looking forward to hearing from you concerning both the Blue and Pink Hydrangeas! I am familiar with both poems. Also, I got your two PM but haven't had a chance to read them as it will take me some time in German. However, I will have more time after tomorrow. I've enjoyed my company but have missed my "Rilke" time online!

Liebe Gruße,

Linda

Marie
Beiträge: 308
Registriert: 9. Mär 2003, 21:27
Wohnort: rhld.-pfalz

Beitrag von Marie » 3. Jul 2003, 10:52

Hi Linda,

you surely have already read the email (in English!). I've just been working on my homepage, adding some more rose pictures and the two poems "Blaue Hortensie" and "Rosa Hortensie". I'm waiting for the photos of my blue Hydrangeas - the pink one still doesn't bloom, because it got harmed by the cold temperatures last winter. It is safe now, but the blooming is delayed.

Liebe Grüße :D

Gast

Beitrag von Gast » 3. Jul 2003, 19:53

Hi Marie,

Yes, I have read both emails now (German and English!), and I am working on a response via e-mail!

Liebe Grüße,

Linda

Gast

Beitrag von Gast » 3. Jul 2003, 19:56

Sorry, I just realized that they weren't both e-mails. One was a PM (the one in German), but since I sent this without logging in, it was posted as a guest and I can't correct what I wrote!

Liebe Grüße,

Linda

Rilke Fan
Beiträge: 187
Registriert: 8. Apr 2003, 18:56
Wohnort: Texas, USA

Beitrag von Rilke Fan » 4. Jul 2003, 22:19

Hi Marie,

Using your translation (above) as a guideline, below is the translation I came up with, but first a couple of questions.
The first line in German is: "Schau, unsre Tage sind so eng" - I translated "eng" as "narrow," but isn't he basically saying that our days are short?

You translated the second line "und bang das Nachtgemach" as "and scared is the bedroom." I was wondering if "das Nachtgemach" could mean "the slow night" rather than the "bedroom?" I know that Gemach is translated as room or chamber, and thus Nachtgemach could be bedroom, but I see that the adverb "gemach" means "slowly," and I was wondering if Nachtgemach is possibly a Rilke creation then that could possibly mean "the slow night" rather than the "bedroom." It just seems to make more sense in the poem to me than bedroom does. What do you think he is trying to say in the first stanza. I don't see what the red roses have to do with narrow or short days and fearful or frightened nights. Do you? I also didn't really understand the last two lines of the poem "sie fühlt sich an wie Weihnachtsschnee, und steht doch ganz in Brand." What is on fire or in flames?

Look, our days are so narrow
and fearful the slow night;
we all reach awkwardly
for the red roses.

You must be compassionate with us, Mary,
we bloom from your blood,
and you alone can know, how
painful yearning is;

for you have realized this pain
of the soul as a child;
it feels like Christmas snow,
but is completely on fire.

Liebe Grüße,

Linda

Marie
Beiträge: 308
Registriert: 9. Mär 2003, 21:27
Wohnort: rhld.-pfalz

Beitrag von Marie » 7. Jul 2003, 07:15

Hi Linda,

first the word „eng“ is also associated with „bedrückend“ in the meaning of getting s.b. down and that’s what “narrow” does, too: to get s.b. down or under pressure. So again you have a double meaning: the spatial and the psychological viewpoint is combined in this term.

The noun “Gemach” is an old fashioned word for “Zimmer” and is different from the adj. “gemach”, to do s.th. slowly. We still use an other form of this adj. for example in the meaning of “er ging seinen Weg ganz gemächlich”. I’m not a linguist and can’t tell you, if the roots of both words are the same. There might be a relation, but I’m not sure. Also, I would leave a word for bedroom or anything similar in, because “slow night” already is an interpretation and doesn’t leave room for an individual understanding of Rilke’s metaphors.

The “girl-suffering of the soul” is “in flames”. It means an indefinable longing inside that marks the transitional period between a child and a woman. In this case I, too, would prefer a literal translation, because Rilke certainly made a difference between child and girl-suffering (I'm not sure if he ever wrote s.th. about "boy-suffering" that is comparable to his poetically view on girls!)

Liebe Grüße :D

Rilke Fan
Beiträge: 187
Registriert: 8. Apr 2003, 18:56
Wohnort: Texas, USA

Beitrag von Rilke Fan » 7. Jul 2003, 16:27

Hi Marie,

I continue to be amazed at the things that you see in Rilke's poems that I don't see until after reading your explanations. I was attracted to this poem solely because I thought the first line would be translated as "our days are so narrow," and I liked the way that sounded, because I thought it was another way of saying that our days are so short! But it turns out he was really talking about something altogether different.

So if I understand what you are saying, this poem is probably speaking of a girl's sexual awakening I presume (I hope I'm not way off course here again!), but with the choice of words and after your explanation, it sort of makes sense to look at it that way now: eng, Nachtgemach, ungelenk, Sehnsucht, Mädchenweh, Weihnachtsschnee, in Brand. I assume the Weihnachtsschnee represents purity or virginity, and Brand then is used to portray the burning sexual yearning or desire. Or am I way off here again? In which case perhaps I might think about erasing this posting! Perhaps I have now read a little too much into this poem. Perhaps with "Mädchenweh der Seele" he is simply speaking of a girl's desire for love - a yearning to find her "soulmate" -- or maybe it is ALL of those things! :roll:

Liebe Grüße,

Linda

Marie
Beiträge: 308
Registriert: 9. Mär 2003, 21:27
Wohnort: rhld.-pfalz

Beitrag von Marie » 7. Jul 2003, 19:22

Hi Linda,

let's say "ALL of those things". But Rilke surely emphasized the "purity" (the white wintersnow expresses this aspect more intensely than the sexual awakening). Don't worry about the metaphors - they are always difficult to understand in a foreign language. I can't even promise that my opinion about it is based on a correct understanding and so there are no other contributions to this, you have to use your own imagination (or find another English translation somewhere). Anyway, the dream of a perfect and ever-lasting love might be something Rilke considered girls to be more capable of having it.

Liebe Grüße :D

Gast

Beitrag von Gast » 18. Dez 2005, 23:25

Marie hat geschrieben:Hi Linda,

I was out the whole day yesterday and have to go to the doctor with my daughter this morning. So I probably won't be back with a translation before this evening. I wish you a happy time with your visitors (10 days is a long time! I hope, they are nice guests?!)

This poem I read yesterday and liked it very much. It reminds me of the last verse of "Hinter den schuldlosen Bäumen", another of Rilke's poems I'm specially related and to this sentence in the Elegies "Nur Innen, Geliebte, wird Welt sein",also to the last part of the 10th Elegie ("wenn ein Glückliches fällt"). There is a story and dream out of my own experiences behind this which I might tell you under PN or by email soon:

Siehe, ich wußte es sind
solche, die nie den gmeinsamen Gang
lernten zwischen den Menschen;
sondern der Aufgang in plötzlich
entatmete Himmel
war ihr Erstes. Der Flug
durch der Liebe Jahrtausende
ihr Nächstes, Unendliches.

Eh sie noch lächelten
weinten sie schon vor Freude;
eh sie noch weinten
war ihre Freude schon ewig.

Frage mich nicht
wie lange sie fühlten; wie lange
sah man sie noch? Denn unsichtbare sind
unsägliche Himmel
über der inneren Landschaft.

Eines ist Schicksal. Da werden die Menschen
sichtbarer. Stehn wie Türme. Verfalln.
Aber die Liebenden gehn
ewig hervor; denn aus dem Ewigen
ist kein Ausweg. Wer widerruft
Jubel?


Liebe Grüße :D

Benutzeravatar
Volker
Beiträge: 200
Registriert: 8. Mär 2003, 12:39
Wohnort: Freie Hansestadt Bremen

Beitrag von Volker » 19. Dez 2005, 22:04

Lieber "Gast" !
Du übst dich anscheinend im Zitieren von z.T. uralten Beiträgen anderer Forumsteilnehmer -
ohne selber eigene Kommentare abzugeben.

Wozu soll das gut sein?
Ich hab' auch Verstand.©
gez. Volker

Rilke Fan
Beiträge: 187
Registriert: 8. Apr 2003, 18:56
Wohnort: Texas, USA

Thanks

Beitrag von Rilke Fan » 3. Feb 2006, 20:00

Thanks for your above comment, Volker. I was wondering about that last posting with no comment myself. I guess some people have nothing better to do with their time. Today I received an email from this forum stating I had a response to one of my old postings from 2003 only to find a bunch of jumbed letters of the alphabet with no apparent meaning.

Haven't heard from you in a long time. How are you?

Rilke Fan

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